Oh Canada!

[chickenfeet]

I'm always a bit surprised when American friends decide to move to Canada on the grounds that we don't have nutjob fundamentalist social conservatives up here. Clearly they don't read the Canadian press. As this story shows, we have plenty to worry about. In fact, if one deducts Quebec from the equation the balance of forces in Canada isn't substantially different from the US. Given that the only credible opposition to the Conservatives is the Liberals, who are a bunch of criminals with links to organised crime, we have plenty to worry about.

Comments

[forthright.livejournal.com]

Should we perhaps specify that the balance of forces isn't substantially different from the northeastern and midwestern US?

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure. I think if one takes Quebec out of the equation, it looks like a slightly (very slightly) less extreme version of the US as a whole. I suspect that New England is more secular than RoC. The mid west may not be a bad analogue.

[forthright.livejournal.com]

One argument that consistently gives me reason to think differently is a demographic one. Over the past 20 years, the two areas that are growing most rapidly in Canada are Toronto and Vancouver, arguably two of the most liberal, or even socialist, cities on the continent. This contrasts greatly with the US, where the conservative southwest and south are growing while other regions are stagnant or contracting.

Also, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find any broad region in the US where 55% of the populace supports gay marriage (not just civil unions), which is the pan-Canadian figure according to the latest polls. Of course, that isn't the only benchmark one could use to adjudicate the question, but it isn't a bad one.

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

One argument that consistently gives me reason to think differently is a demographic one. Over the past 20 years, the two areas that are growing most rapidly in Canada are Toronto and Vancouver, arguably two of the most liberal, or even socialist, cities on the continent.

Surely it's the GTA and the GVA which are growing not Toronto and Vancouver per se. The 905 area is a hotbed of social conservatism. I think immigration is very much a two edged sword in this context. There are powerful social conservative forces in many immigrant groups which the right is getting better at organising.

[forthright.livejournal.com]

I take your point, and certainly many immigrants are socially conservative - at least, in the first generation. Regardless, though - where in the US can you find mayors of major cities as far to the left as David Miller or Larry Campbell?

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

Seattle?
Washington DC?
San Francisco?
Berkeley?

[forthright.livejournal.com]

San Francisco: Gavin Newsom is a centrist even in US, despite his support for gay rights. He was the rightmost candidate in the last election. If Matt Gonzalez had defeated him, this would be a counterexample.

Washington, DC: Anthony Williams is another moderate, a centrist; DC is, admittedly, *highly* Democratic in its voting pattern, but largely its political skew is a factor of its populace being 60% African American.

I don't know anything about the mayors of Seattle and Berkeley.

[carlanime.livejournal.com]

Given that the only credible opposition to the Conservatives is the Liberals, who are a bunch of criminals with links to organised crime, we have plenty to worry about.


So much "word" on that.

::sigh::

[mizalaina.livejournal.com]

Well, I can tell you that the difference between my own experiences living in the US and Canada are quite stark. I find Canadians in general to be far more reasonable, not nearly as leap-before-you-look as the US is politically.

I mean, it's not like we're from different planets, but there are noticeable differences.

I honestly don't think the US social conservatism would fly here in Canada. You might get one or two representatives but they're not going to dominate Parliament like they do in the States. At least I hope not, and if they do, I'm moving to the Netherlands.

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

Have you lived anywhere in Canada other than Toronto? My hypothesis is that US perceptions of Canada are warped by two factors; a view that pretty much excludes anywhere except Toronto and Vancouver, and a reliance on averaged stats that include Quebec. From a practical political point of view, I believe that if Quebec were to separate then RoC would look quite like the US politically. It wouldn't be identical because it wouldn't have the rabid nationalism but it would be considerably more socially conservative than many believe. It's not so long since Ontario elected the Harris conservatives. Project that onto a national scale.

[mizalaina.livejournal.com]

Have you lived anywhere in Canada other than Toronto?

Good point, and I do have to keep reminding myself of that.