York University

[chickenfeet]

Yesterday was the first time I have ever set foot on the campus of York University (the Canadian one). What a totally depressing dump! Its a sub-suburban wasteland of construction sites, parking lots and gerry built buildings of a degree of ugliness that ranks up there with the nastier kind of public housing project. In fact, opposite it, across Keele St, are an industrial estate and an oil terminal that don't look appreciably different. Add to that the minimal to non-existent building maintenance and the garbage everywhere and you have a complete academic slum.

It is orientation week here so all over the campus there were roving bands of keen young freshers being shown how to navigate this wasteland. What a thought, to spend four years of your youth in such a profoundly un-uplifting setting. It really makes me appreciate my time at Durham!

Comments

[maryshelley.livejournal.com]

why not try and like it?:)

education for masses, in ugly buildings.
rather than education for elits in a pretty french style building.

what do the say?: don't judge a book by the cover.:)

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

I don't think its an either/or. There are plenty of public universities that are not squalid slums. University of Toronto isn't for example. Just as big, just as public, just not so damn ugly. Besides, education has (or should have) components that transcend the utilitarian.

[maryshelley.livejournal.com]

ofcourse it does, that is why most people were illiterate until last century.

what would you rather have: pretty universities, but only few of them, or many ugly universities.:)
i would defintely go for the later.
because the building does not matter at all.
it is the teacher and the student who make up the university and not the classroom you are sitting in.

are you wiling to pay more taxes to beatify the place?
i am not. and neither are the people who live in the area of your university.

instead of critising the buildings, ask yourself what have you done to make the world more beatiful.
i bet nothing.
other than complain.

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

ofcourse it does, that is why most people were illiterate until last century

In Western Europe and the United States most people were literate well before 1900. Want evidence, look at the standard or reading of conscripts in the german Army. In fact literacy was widespread in many countries before 1700 (New England included). Mass education is a different matter. It came about more as a means of disciplining people to factory production than because of a desire to enlighten.

what would you rather have: pretty universities, but only few of them, or many ugly universities.:)


I am going to say it again, its not an either or. I suspect the long term costs of an attractive well built university are less than those of one that is falling apart as soon as it is built.

I would defintely go for the later.
because the building does not matter at all.
it is the teacher and the student who make up the university and not the classroom you are sitting in.

I beg to differ and I suspect so would William of Wykeham, Henry VI, John Harvard and scores of other college builders. They knew that ugliness and squalour are not conducive to reflection and learning. Of course if you believe that the purpose of universities is to fit people up with the skills for entry level clerical work you could argue differently but personally I think universities exist to serve a higher purpose than that.

instead of critising the buildings, ask yourself what have you done to make the world more beatiful.
i bet nothing.
other than complain

What I can, considering my modest means. No, I haven't endowed a new university but in a small way I support our local museums and arts organizations.

[maryshelley.livejournal.com]

the kind of literacy you are talking about are elitist.
it was always less than quater of the population who could read.

i do not consider universities as training grounds.
but niether do i consider them as a place that has to be pretty.

i think what is conductive to thought depends on the person.
but there are some base requirements that must be fulfilled.
like having a chair to sit in and blackboard to write on.
that is about it.

henry the fourth is not what i consider an educator.

how the hell does he know what universities need.
he was a bad king.



universities exist to have a place to exchange information.
that is it.
what higher purpose to do you propose?

if you need a place conductive to thought, go home and study.
maybe next building you build will not fall apart.

i just don't understand your whinning about comfort when people in africa are gathered by dozens in one room, with no floor and no chairs and no desks and no paper.

and you are complaining because the building is too grey?

how about black children who, at the begining of this century, had to study on the street, sitting on boxes, in middle of shit and piss.

how about in russia, where you could not go to a fucking grey university if you were a jew or not a communist.

people could care less about the buildings then.
what they wanted is just a simple right to be able to attend the university.
but that is not enough for you.

you want the lace and the extras.

you want your buildings to shine and to be beatiful.

who cares what kind of teachers are inside, right?

we just want it to look good.

well i am sick of it.
concentrate on paying teachers more.
concentrate on making education free.
concentrate on actually studying while you are attending university.
dont' fucking waiste your time whining about the ugliness of the building.
go study, make better buildings. make better world.

[oursin.livejournal.com]

And is the use of correct spelling and grammar also an elitist demand?

[maryshelley.livejournal.com]

i heard that one before.

just consider that english is not my first language.
and deal with my errors in writing.
better that, than having english as a first language and making those mistakes. (like in your journal)

[oursin.livejournal.com]

The spellchecker is your friend.

And please do specify any mistakes you've found in my journal, so that I can correct them. We all sometimes make mistakes in proof-reading our texts.

[cibetky.livejournal.com]

But, Lena, higher education will always be a bit elitist. Not everybody has the intellectual potential (or skills if you will) required to study at a university.

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

It depends what you mean by study at a university and, indeed, by university. Here, increasingly, undergraduate education is becoming more utilitarian and less academic. There are probably 10 people studying accounting for every one studying history. Is that what a university is for?

Actually, I really question the assumption that expanding universities is an egalitarian cause. In my view the very rich and the very bright (provided they don't get lost in the school systenm early on) will tend to find their way to university anyway. The biggest threat to the very bright is they got lost in the system prior to university. Expanding universities serves to provide a pseudo education for middle class kids who didn't do well at school for whatever reason. If one wanted to make sure that bright kids from disadvantaged homes go to university then one would channel the money into primary and secondary education in disadvantaged areas.

Oddly enough, that is exactly what one well known Tory CC does in the UK. Its merchandised as "better value for money" in terms of outcomes, which it is, but no-one who knows the director of education would believe that was the whole story.

[cibetky.livejournal.com]

There's something rotten in the (current) state of academia.

[cibetky.livejournal.com]

And you haven't seen the one I go to...