Five questions from c_mantix

[chickenfeet]

1. Is it ethical to experiment on animals to find cures to terminal human diseases?

Yes! Naturally I think steps should be taken to minimize any suffering but I'm not going to sacrifice the prospect of a cure for, say, MS over undue concerns for, say, chickens.

2. Is it ever right to 'impeach' or 'force out of power' the duly elected leader of a country?

I think the answer again has to be "yes" but I would say only if the leader in question has done something seriously improper such as breaching the constitution or taking bribes. I think the notion that a leader is entitled to his full elected term even if he is behaving monstrously is self evidently flawed.

3. "The Consolation of Philosophy by Boethius is the greatest text of spiritual philosophy ever written". Agree/Disagree. Comment.

I'm not sure I have the knowledge to make such a definitive pronouncement. It's a work I admire and find myself rereading from time to time for sure but I could say that about many works of Plato and Marcus Aurelius' Meditations too.

4. Are mathematicians born or made?

I think it's a bit of both. While I think that any reasonably intelligent person can reach a much higher level of mathematical attainment than is usual in our society(1) I'm not sure that everyone is wired to handle the level of abstraction that comes in at some point in undergraduate (let alone graduate) work. I saw this at university where a class of people with top notch 'A' level grades in mathematics lost about 30% of its members in the course of the first year, mostly because of an inability to handle a quantum jump in abstraction and rigour. That said, mathematics is hard work and just as top notch musicians and dancers have to do a lot of basic repetitive stuff to perform at their best, so do mathematicians.

fn1: That there are intelligent people who claim they can't "do maths" (by which they mean the stuff a reasonably bright eleven year old can handle) and that that is OK disgusts me. It's like saying it's OK for scientists to be illiterate.

5. Which book (fiction or non-fiction) do you wish you had written?

Gosh! The Koran perhaps, so that I could tell people not to take it so bloody literally. Seriously, there are so many I wish I'd written. Maybe I should pick Edwin Abbott's Flatland because I can't think of any other book that has influenced so many young people to think seriously about mathematics.

Comments

[anneth.livejournal.com]

I was never a good math student, and that meant I was usually stuck in remedial math classes with terrible teachers, which completely reinforced the lesson that I was bad at math ad naseum. (In the sixth grade - which was a terrible year anyway - my wretched math teacher actually called my mother up to explain that our class was about to start negative numbers, and to express her great concern that I wouldn't understand them.) My jr. year of HS I lucked into a great teacher, who exhibited the combination of patience and enthusiasm that finally taught me I wasn't a dismal failure whenever it came to numbers. I ended up doing astrophysics in college, I think mainly because of him. One can be extraordinarily slow at math (as I am), but that doesn't automatically mean one's bad at it. (Just as my mother's a very slow reader, but reads voraciously and comprehends just as well as I, a very fast reader.)

Sigh. I think I'm trying to agree with the sentiments you express in #4; forgive the rant.

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

I realise that a lot of the "math block" problem is caused by bad teaching. I do also think though that it's at least partly a question of low expectations. In Germany, a relatively high standard of math attainment is required for university entrance. Guess what, by and large people achieve it.

[lemur-man.livejournal.com]

Re footnote: there are a lot of scientists (okay, mostly engineers) who have shockingly poor writing skills, are aware of the fact and don't care, because somehow it's 'not important'. This is no different, really (not that either situation is acceptable, however).

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

okay, mostly engineers)

Most of them can't do maths either. Still I guess we do need plumbers.

[c-mantix.livejournal.com]

Thanks for answering my questions so unflinchingly! Very thought provoking and revealing...

[geneticallydead.livejournal.com]

I would say that there is a percentage of people out there who have comprehension problems related to math in the way that some people have dyslexia (which is traditionally related to literacy skills). I just don't think it's been widely recognised yet, and as such there is a prevalence of bad teaching methods being applied to people who are not capable of responding to it.

This is kind of just my theory, based on my own perception of things. I think you're right - too many people accept the situation as being 'okay'. I'm well aware that I have only a year eight level of math. Probably lower, actually. I'm sure that a lot of year eight students would be better at math than I, because I've forgotten most of what I've been taught.

But, I am also aware that I have cognitive difficulties which makes my comprehension of certain things (such as math and sciences) very poor. Knowing my own limitations, I can work around them. If I had of known about these problems when they first began, maybe I wouldn't have sat in my math classes feeling stupid and hating it and deciding I just didn't 'do' math. And yes, so far as I'm concerned this is okay, even to the present day... I do not have the time or the inclination to try and educate myself in the field of math. I am not required to study math in order to pursue my chosen field. I am not a parent, so therefore have no need to tutor anybody... I'm terrible at math. I'm okay with that.

I have to wonder how many other people are in similar situations to me - they have their cognitive and comprehension functions somehow impaired (which can be induced with a small insult to the brain such as glandular fever or chronic fatigue syndrome), which immediately makes a field such as math much, much harder for them. How long was it before children weren't called slow or stupid for being illiterate, but instead recognised as being dyslexic?

Maybe this whole comment doesn't make any sense - it's really rather late. I also think I get a little defensive on the subject, so my apologies if this came on too strong:)

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

I'm prepared to concede the possibility of some mathematical analogue of dyslexia though I'm a bit skeptical about the parallel as a true parallel would deal with an inability to cope with language (I think).

The trouble with "writing off" math is that so much of modern decision making discourse is quantitative. People make decisions based on surveys, opinion polls and the like. If they have no idea what that data means how can they make good decisions?

[frankie-ecap.livejournal.com]

In a moment of exceptional honesty, I will admit that I think it's okay to experiment on animals for medical purposes only and in a highly regulated and audited environment.

Except cats. That is never okay.